The Devils have announced that they will be retiring Scott Neidermayer’s number 27 sometime during this season (rumors suggest it will be December 16). He is one of my favorite players all time, if not THE favorite. It goes without saying that in my biased view, his number should be hanging from the rafters, never to be worn by the likes of the Mottaus or Tallacksons ever again.
Neidermayer was one of the most gifted skaters ever to play in the NHL. I wish that I could do anything half as well as he can skate. Hell, I wish I could walk half as well as he skates. Alas, my destiny is to constantly walk into things while he smoothly skates the periphery of the ice in around 4 seconds. But I digress.
In parts of 13 seasons with the Devils (and parts of 5 with the Mightiful Disney Ducks of Anaheim) he played in 1465 regular season and playoff games, amassing 838 points (197g, 641a). He was a key figure in all 3 of the Devils Stanley Cup championships (as well as the Conn Smythe award winner for the Ducks’ championship season in 2006-07). He finally won the Norris Trophy for best defenseman in 2003-04 (the only Devil ever to win the award). He is also the only player EVER to win every major North American and international championship: Memorial Cup, World Cup, Stanley Cup (4x) and gold medals in the World Junior Championship, IIHF World Championship and the Olympics (2x). So it’s safe to say he’s awesome. No brainer to retire his number, right, seeing how he will be remembered and everything he brought to the franchise for the equivalent of both my elementary and high school careers? He made Colin White look good for years. That has to count for something, right? Right?
Well, believe it or not, there is a lot of anger about this floating around the internet. What, anger and jealousy on the internet you say? Never. Well, maybe just this once (and by once I mean, 900 trillionth time).
The Devils beat the Ducks for the Stanley Cup in June of 2003. Playing on the Ducks’ third line was Scott’s brother, Rob. While winning the Cup is the ultimate prize in hockey and what every little kid hopes to do, it was clearly bittersweet for Scott. It was obvious that he wanted to share that joy with his brother and that it was hard for him to shake his hand afterwards. That was the moment I knew he would leave the Devils if LL couldn’t find a way to get Rob on the team. I believe he had tried to trade for him in the past, but was never able to bring him over. And seeing all of this, then Ducks’ GM Brian Burke overpaid Rob to stay in Anaheim. And so when Scott reached unrestricted free agency after the 2003-04 season, he left to play on the same team as his brother, eventually passing him the Stanley Cup in 2007. In fact, he left money on the table to do this (I think it worked out to a little more than $4 million).
I never blamed him for doing this. I got it. I still get it. He left a huge hole on the Devils’ blue line and in their leadership. He will never be replaced because there is nobody quite like him. But so it goes and like I said, I get it. But there seems to be a surprisingly large contingent of folks on the interwebs that believe he should piss off and his number should either never be retired or, at the very least, should be pushed off until after Brodeur and Elias retire first. It’s hard to understand that kind of bitterness, especially in light of what he did and the circumstances around him leaving. But then maybe I’m a little more rational than most people.
The Red Sox have 3 criteria for retiring a player’s number: 1) election to the National Baseball Hall of Fame, 2) at least 10 years played with the Red Sox and 3) finish his career with the club. The Devils have no criteria that I know of for retiring a player’s number. Should there be a reason to withhold this honor from a player who so clearly deserves it? Should there be criteria that MUST always be met?
Anyway, I’m interested in what other people think about this. Not so much the specifics of Scott Neidermayer, but the number retirement in general. Should spitefulness win out in the end as we forget about a player’s complete body of work just because he didn’t spend his entire career with your team? Can the business side of things and the personal side of things be viewed from a rational perspective that includes both? Can’t we all just get along?
Great stuff as always, Martin. I think peeps on the interweb who say he should not get his number retired are complete morons. I mean, just sooo fricking stupid.
ReplyDeleteThe guy was drafted by the Devs, came up through their system and won 3 cups with him. It wasn't until he left that the rest of the league and the fan base realized how special he was.
Fans can get mad at him for leaving if they want, but this is the same fan base that started to hint at trading Brodeur recently. Nieds took the opportunity to play with his brother for Anaheim. Who cares? Seriously. Get over it.
And here's the rub: I've said it for years - their is no loyalty in sports. Sure it would have been great for Nieds to stay, but besides giving him an opportunity to play in the NHL and helping him win 3 Stanley Cups, Nieds owes nothing to the organization. Just like people who sit in cubicles do on a daily basis, he left his company for another one. We as fans expect them to stay in one place (unless you suck, in which get the hell out) but we don't do it in our own life.
Now, I will say that I have not forgiven Gomez for going to the Rangers, but Nieds went to Anaheim. Little geography lesson - Anaheim is in California, approx 3000 miles away. They weren't even in the same conference! This isn't the Rangers we're talking about.
As for requirement to have your number retired, I think formal requirements are interesting idea, but I'm not a fan of it. At some point players leave their long time team for one more year. They always go poorly, but you can't blame them for wanting another year. Is Boston not going to retire Pedro's number? If the answer is yes, then I think that is silly. But understandable considering the Red Sox have been around for 100 years. They can't retire every number.
The Devs are different - there is a core of 5-6 guys who brought us our Cups. Reward them. Don't be petty about it. If in 20 years we suddenly have 15 numbers retired, then yeah, let's think about a policy. But for now, we are fine.
I just read your last post and can't help but think the end of it segues nicely into the end of mine. John Smoltz played his last year for the Sox, not the Braves. The Braves would be insane to not retire his number, but if the roles were reversed, the Sox would not be able to retire it because he finished his career on another team (the caveat exists that they could sign him to a 1 day contract so he could retire as a member of that team, but that's kind of a ridiculous cop-out).
ReplyDeleteI think that Pedro was a special pitcher who should be honored in a special way. He is exactly the kind of player that makes me disagree with the rules that the Sox have created. He was simply amazing for most of those Boston years (To put it in perspective, Verlander has had an amazing season this year, but he would need to repeat it 4 more times to be in the same class as Pedro). The Sox made a business decision not to offer him the contract he wanted and he made the business decision to steal the Mets' money. That doesn't change the beast that he was in the years around the turn of the millennium.
Then there's Schilling. I'm on the fence about him having his number retired. His intangibles say yes, but his tangibles say probably not. And then the rules exist on top of that. That's probably a debate for another day, though.
My final thing with Neidermayer is that stats can't fully describe him as a player. He was arguably the best defenseman on the team for 3 championships (Stevens vs Neidermayer is abother interesting debate) and one of the best to ever play. I wasn't kidding about his skating before, either. I seriously can't walk half as well as he can skate. He probably would have scored more in a more open system with better forwards. A great skater and passer, he was the perfect puck moving defenseman. And like I said, he made Colin White look competent.
There needs to be a point where spite and bitterness subsides and the good times come shining through. The interwebs are fickle and filled with asshats. I won't let them rain on my parade.
Here are some polarizing folks for the whole number retirement thing. Thoughts?
ReplyDeleteLeBron James (Cleveland)
Junior Seau (San Diego)
Roberto Luongo (Florida)
Randy Moss (New England, Minnesota)
Brett Favre (Green Bay)
Tom Glavine, John Smoltz, Greg Maddux (Atlanta)
Clyde Drexler (Portland)
Joe Montana/Jerry Rice (SF)
Jr. Griffey, Randy Johnson, A-Rod or any of the other stud Mariners who took off but were still amazing when they were there.
Some of those are easier than others (in my mind at least)
ReplyDeleteDEFINITE YES:
-Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux
-Drexler
-Montana, Rice
-Griffey
-Seau
MAYBE:
Randy Johnson (SEA)
NOT A CHANCE:
-A-Rod (SEA)
-Lebron (CLE)
-Favre (GB), which is a shame because his number should be retired
NOT EVEN SURE THEY DESERVE IT:
-Luongo
-Moss
I think the bigger question surrounds the steroids guys: Clemens, McGwire, Bonds
I guess I was trying to come up with a list of players who had tremendous effects on their teams (mostly the team that drafted them) and then left on shady or downright nasty terms. I don't know enough about all of the people I listed to know if they even qualify under my own criteria.
ReplyDeleteMy biggest thing is at what point do you say it's ok to bail for a chance to win somewhere else? Junior Seau retired and then reinstated himself to sign with the Pats. Was he a force in all those years in San Diego? Undoubtedly. Did he also kind of say fuck off to San Diego? Yeah, kind of.
Shit, Glavine got low balled and signed with a division rival. At least Smoltz went to the AL. Of course, they both deserve it (Glavine even tried to save the Thrashers because he loves the city of Atlanta so much).
Is that kind of thing forgivable even through the rationality lens?
I think the point of having your number retired is so that in 20 years when you bring little Johnny to the game, you can explain to him why his number is retired.
ReplyDeleteSeattlites would love to retire Jamie Moyer's and Jay Buhner's numbers for what they meant to the team and community, but luckily neither has happened. In Seattle, I get the sense that besides Ichiro and Edgar, only Griffey will be retired. He asked for a trade out of town and was granted it...yet a decade later when he returned, all the fans gushed over him. They were able to put that all aside because of his greatness and what he meant to the team.
Ultimately I think you need to leave the bitter feelings aside and remember the on-the-field moments. I don't actually think that fans are super pissed when an over the hill guy looks for a championship (ie- Bourque). Being 37 and leaving is one thing, but being LBJ and leaving is another. I think Seau and Glavine are fine.